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 How the chapter ends

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Zas B'ul

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PostSubject: How the chapter ends   Sat 15 Apr 2017, 00:10

As the pack broke camp and continued the trek towards Galveston, Zas strode alongside with Eaton. Content to just let silence reign, it became clear that the philodox seemed to be trying to work somethings out in his head.

He did not say much of anything for a long span of time, but finally when he had been unable to reach any sort of consensus on whatever it was that bothered him, the philodox looked to Eaton and asked, "I am trying to find the connection."

At the Galliard's confused look, the Apache rubbed his the side of his head.

"The book of the missionaries that we have talked about before...it speaks of forgiveness, right? You said that it was possible that the book was an interpretation of how these people saw Gaia. How do you think that could be applied here-in our situation? I don't see the connection."
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Eaton

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PostSubject: Re: How the chapter ends   Sat 15 Apr 2017, 12:16

The piece of grass Eaton was chewing went slack when Zas first spoke, raising an eyebrow. When the Apache asked his question the Bone Gnawer spat it out and said, "A connection? Like your thinkin' that something in those verses pertain to us right now? Hmm . . ."

He thought for a moment before he replied further, "A big part of the Bible is that Christ bore the screw ups of humans and that through him, they were able to be forgiven. I dunno how much that applies for Garou. As nice as it would be for believin' in Gaia to take care of our sins, I don't think there's a savior figure who we go before to be forgiven. Usually, the elder or the highest rankin' Philodox doles out a punishment for the offender. There isn't so much as forgiveness than there is justice."

He gave a small laugh, " I mean, what is forgiveness? It's acknowledgin' that you screwed up but the folks ya wronged ain't holdin' it over you. In some folks eyes, what we did wasn't wrong- as much as I don't agree with 'em. I dunno of there even can be a Garou savior if the tribes don't agree on what a sin is except for the most obvious examples."

He paused and shook his head, "Nope, scratch that. Not even that."
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Zas B'ul

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PostSubject: Re: How the chapter ends   Sat 15 Apr 2017, 22:26

When the bonegnawer began to speak, the apache seemed lost in his own mind. However when he mentions justice, Zas shakes free from his mental stupor.

"You think forgiveness and justice are separate from one another?"

He mulls the idea over before shaking his head, "I do not. Even that book says that without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness. Justice is about restoring the balance. Forgiveness also seeks to create a balance. You ask me how I view forgiveness; I believe it is canceling a debt-or starting fresh. Justice then is making certain the amount owed is fair. They are intertwined."

He pauses, "Maybe the reason there is no Garou savior, is because his time has not yet come."

The Silent Strider looks at Eaton for a long moment and says, "Maybe the Garou savior could be your child. Think about it-your offspring is nearly the pinnacle of balance. Being born from what many consider the Alpha tribe of the Silverfangs, but also coming from the Bone gnawers, who some view as the omega tribe. Your own wife seemed to recover from her illness...maybe there is something to this."
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PostSubject: Re: How the chapter ends   Sun 16 Apr 2017, 13:39

Eaton contemplated Zas' explanation of justice and forgiveness. Pausing for a moment, he replied, "Justice and forgiveness ain't always disparate, but you can certainly have one without the other. They may both try and reach balance, but justice is by payin' dues cause they deserve it. Forgiveness is about showin' mercy, even when the other doesn't deserve it. Another big gap between 'em is that a judge-type figure can't forgive- only the one wronged can."

Taking an uneasy breath he added, "And folks still differ on what justice means. Some of the Gnawer's back there wanted blood for what we did, but MacLeod didn't see it that way. But what he did wasn't exactly forgiveness either. I'm sure ya know the tough decisions that need to be made when justice is administered."

He then raised his eyebrow again, "Er, so yer sayin' my son has to take on all the sins of the Garou? Zas, for all the shit we've done, one Garou ain't gonna be enough . . ."  

He then stopped himself looking at Zas in realization, "Wait Zas- we have encountered something like a savoir. Didn't Melchizedek send Penelope to Erebus to redeem the White Howlers, by atoning for their sins?"
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PostSubject: Re: How the chapter ends   Sun 16 Apr 2017, 18:20

The philodox nodded in agreement with his packmate's explanation. "That makes sense."

As Eaton shared his doubt about his child, Zas shrugged, "I could be wrong-it's happened before. But it is an interesting thought."

When Eaton brought up Penelope, Zas considered it for a moment. "Well...it seems though that she left before her attempt at tribal redemption was complete. But, yes; In our travels thus far that would likely be the best comparison."

The apache looked down as the two garou continued on, clearly not wanting to discuss something, "You said that what Uncle MacLeod gave was not forgiveness. Do you consider then his act as justice? Do you feel that our enduring mark of shame is enough penance for what we did?"

He looks back up at Eaton, "You expressed interest in being punished before we met with the Bonegnawers-was that enough, or do you need more?"
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PostSubject: Re: How the chapter ends   Tue 18 Apr 2017, 20:51

Eaton actually stretched out his neck to look Zas in the eye, "Well, I guess MacLeod showed mercy on his punishment knowin' that we killed someone close to him. Still, castin' this on us and then tellin' us to get lost ain't forgiveness. But for what we did, I wasn't expectin' or lookin' for it, cause that ain't the reason I wanted to go back."


With an unsure tone he said, "I felt like we had to take some sort of lickin'. I don't want our reputation to be that we stomp into someone's land, stir up trouble, and then get the hell out. Submittin' to punishment was to show that we know what we did was wrong- even if others won't see it that way. As for if I was punishment enough . . . well, knowin' MacLeod he wasn't gonna give us somethin' where we couldn't perform out duty to Gaia- like cuttin' spirit ties and maimin' us so we can't walk. I think a punishment of wounded pride fits the crime well enough. Don't you?"
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PostSubject: Re: How the chapter ends   Mon 24 Apr 2017, 15:03

Zas grows quiet for a moment as he mulls over the thought.

"I believe Macleod did what he felt was the right thing to do, not necessarily what he wanted to do. I also think our killing the vampire and then willingly returning to the Rat's nest helped our case...."

The Silent Strider plods along, his focus on the road in front of him. "As for whether or not I think the punishment was fitting though... I would say no, not really. I have yet to figure out how to fully weigh and balance the scales of justice in cases such as ours, but I do know that feeling socially humiliated, even if it's for the rest of our lives just does not seem to be equal to the crime we did. Not in my mind. I fully expected to be subjected to something as intense as, if not, the rite of the Silver Forge like Penelope. "

He frowns, "I just don't know that I would have been or necessarily could have been as lenient as the elder Bone Gnawer if I were put in his position."

The philodox looks to Eaton and says, "I know we have had the discussion before, but truthfully, I think that the more Bone Gnawers I meet, the more I am convinced that as a whole, you are much stronger than most give you credit for, admittedly even more than I myself would have thought, and I thought rather highly."
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